Where It Really Starts for Women in Manufacturing

Where do careers in manufacturing really begin for women? In this episode, Meaghan Ziemba shares why the path often starts long before college or a first job, shaped by early exposure, encouragement, and what young girls are (and aren’t) shown. She breaks down who plays a role in that journey and what needs to change to help more women see manufacturing as a path from the start.

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Transcript

Sean Riley: You are listening to Unpacked with PMMI, where we share the latest packaging and processing industry insights, research, and innovations to help you advance your business. Hi, and welcome to Unpacked with PMMI. I'm your host, Sean Riley.

In this episode, Meaghan Ziemba shares why the path often starts long before college or a first job, shaped by early exposure, encouragement, and what young girls are (and aren’t) shown. She breaks down who plays a role in that journey and what needs to change to help more women see manufacturing as a path from the start.

So, with all the fancy introductions out of the way, welcome to our podcast, Meaghan.

Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah, thank you, Sean. Thanks for having me. I'm excited for the conversation.

Sean Riley: The pleasure is all ours. One common theme that I saw when I was checking out your Mavens in Manufacturing—one of the common themes with many of the women that you talk with—is that they didn't originally plan on a manufacturing career. And I feel like I hear that kind of across manufacturing, but again, in particular with women. So what patterns do you notice in how women find manufacturing, or discover the industry? What sort of ways have you discovered as a theme for them to find it out?

Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah. So a lot of them have the same theme that I do, where I accidentally fell into it. So I never imagined being an industrial tech writer for the space. It wasn't something that I learned about until much later on in my college career. I just was always good at English, and I was encouraged to either be a teacher or do something in marketing.

Sean Riley: Mm-hmm.

Meaghan Ziemba: And when I got to college in Milwaukee, that's where I learned about tech writing. And so I took an introduction course and just happened to fall in love with it. Even at that point, I didn't truly understand the capacity of what was involved in technical writing or where it would lead me in my career journey. So it was like a nonstop discovery journey. And I hear that a lot among my guests, where they started out in a completely different industry and then learned that they had a skill set that they could apply, either in engineering and manufacturing, so they just accidentally fell into it.

Sean Riley: Okay.

Meaghan Ziemba: Another pattern is some women had either their dad or their mom in the space, and they just ended up falling in their footsteps.

Sean Riley: Makes sense.

Meaghan Ziemba: Or, if they were in high school and they had a teacher or a mentor or a coach that really saw that they were good either at math or science, they encouraged them in high school to maybe pursue something in engineering. One of the Mavens that I've had on, her name is Kara Branch. She is the founder of Black Girls Do Engineer, and she didn't find out about engineering opportunities until she was in college as well.

Sean Riley: Okay.

Meaghan Ziemba: And it just took someone to notice that she was really good at math and had other skill sets that could be applied to engineering. So they encouraged her to maybe take some engineering courses, and she ended up being a chemical engineer before founding Black Girls Do Engineer. So I think those are the most common themes. I'm starting to see a little bit of a shift, especially among younger generations, where they're hearing about these opportunities, and they're starting to pursue them on purpose. But we still have a long way to go, I think, in my opinion.

Sean Riley: Yeah. I know there's a workforce kind of issue that's above all of this, that we don't have enough people in manufacturing in the workforce. And I do start to hear that, incrementally, the younger generation is starting to get exposed to it much sooner, which is obviously the goal. It's a pretty wonderful career if you set your mind to it and get involved in it.

Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah.

Sean Riley: So it is good to hear that you're saying that they are starting early. And it's funny that you said, from a college perspective, my background is journalism, and I ended up writing for a packaging and processing magazine and had no idea about manufacturing. I didn't even know they existed, and it's the same kind of thing. So it's interesting how we all... We're not aware this exists, but we end up in this world.

Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah. And it's fun too. And I think with you being a journalist, maybe this is something you can agree with, but manufacturers are not really good at sharing their stories.

Sean Riley: No.

Meaghan Ziemba: And engineers, I've found, are terrible writers. But there's this technical style of writing where everything needs to be more direct and kind of compounded and concise, where, in the creative style of writing, you need to appeal to the senses. So now we're seeing a combination of those two types of writing sets.

Sean Riley: Exactly.

Meaghan Ziemba: And it's really exciting, I think. So it's a great time to be a writer in engineering and manufacturing.

Sean Riley: Yeah, it is. It's neat. So, piggybacking off of what you said, interest doesn't seem to be the issue, but it's more of a kind of an awareness that this exists, these opportunities exist. So, where do you see the biggest gaps in how manufacturing careers are introduced to young women, and who do you think needs to get involved earlier in the process to expose them a little bit better?

Meaghan Ziemba: I think the biggest gap is when girls are younger, and they're curious about everything. So I think when kids are kids, they just have a natural curiosity towards how things work. But stereotypically, the types of play that girls are introduced to at a young age involve dolls and dress-up and playing house and cooking, whereas boys, stereotypically, are encouraged to play with blocks or do games that involve construction and some type of visual spacing.

So I think there's this intent now where we're trying to introduce that engineering, building, hands-on type of play to everyone. And there are a few examples that come to mind. So, like, Legos introduced the pink and purple blocks. And then there's a lady, Debbie Sterling, who created Goldie Blocks. So she was an engineering student, I believe, at Stanford, and she noticed that she struggled with the spatial recognition part of engineering, and it's because she never grew up playing with blocks. And when you're doing games like Tetris or Minecraft, you're tapping into that skill set. So she decided to combine reading, which was something younger girls seemed to enjoy more as playtime, and she combined that with a block system. So, as these younger girls were reading a story, they were also building something to go along with the story. And now that it has developed into a cartoon series, they actually have other boxes available that tap into that spatial recognition. And even Barbie, they're creating dolls now that are more STEM-focused, like doctors or engineers or even robotics.

Sean Riley: Right.

Meaghan Ziemba: So I feel like there is this shift now on how to introduce all types of play to younger girls, and not just younger boys, so that curiosity is nurtured as they're growing up. Because there's been a mix of studies where younger girls start to lose interest in math and science, some say as young as six, but a lot of them are saying between the ages of 11 and 15.

Sean Riley: Mm-hmm.

Meaghan Ziemba: So, how do we nurture that curiosity up until they get into high school and even afterward?

Sean Riley: Right.

Meaghan Ziemba: Then it comes down to whose responsibility is it? I find that a lot can start at home, but parents who don't know what's out there also need help in getting educated about the opportunity.

Sean Riley: True.

Meaghan Ziemba: So then who's responsible for educating the parents? And you can take a look at teachers, but teachers at all levels, whether it's elementary, middle, or high school, can only do so much with the budget, the time, and the resources that they have as well. And that includes guidance counselors as well. So my guidance counselor, because I tested so well in English, was always encouraging me toward career paths that were heavy on English and not so much on math and science.

Sean Riley: Right.

Meaghan Ziemba: And even when I tried to sign up for things like wood tech or engineering elective classes, they were telling me, "That's not going to help with your college career or advancement, so you should really focus on these AP classes." So I was highly discouraged from taking classes like that and encouraged to take AP classes. So, again, I think it's the manufacturers themselves who need to take on a huge chunk of that responsibility, where they're connecting with their local educational institutions so that not only are they educating the guidance counselors, but also the teachers. I believe that they can go beyond that and open up their facility doors and invite their community to come in and take tours of their facilities and actually show them the types of engineering and manufacturing they're doing. I think that they can join PTO meetings and school board meetings and be part of that curriculum conversation that is so much needed. And there's a gentleman here in Wisconsin, his name is Matt Goosey. He actually invited high school teachers to come to his facility and learn how he's creating components using CNC machining so that they can actually take what they learn at his facility and go back and apply it to what they're teaching in the schools.

A huge chunk of it, too, I believe, lands on women ourselves. If we want more women to come into this space, then we need to be okay sharing our own stories and sharing our experiences. So I believe that manufacturers, if they have women in their space, should see if any of them will volunteer as their spokesperson and be able to mentor the next generation. Because seeing is believing, and I think representation is a huge component of that.

Sean Riley: Absolutely.

Meaghan Ziemba: We definitely need more women sharing their stories and speaking out and reaching out to younger girls, and mentoring them and supporting them in their school journey so that we can continue to nurture that curiosity and hopefully bring them in when it comes time for them to work.

Sean Riley: That's a great point. Once women get into a career in manufacturing, what kind of sort of signals or support can help them feel like they belong, feel like this is a place for them? And you touched on it with having mentors. Seeing women represented in the industry, in and of itself, is a signal to them that you can do this. Are there any other ones that you can think of in the first couple of years that can help young women?

Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah. So there was a huge push during our last administration for DEI, but I think belonging isn't just created by a welcome packet or a DEI slide in onboarding. I think it shows up in the small, everyday moments. So, who are you inviting in your conversations regarding business strategy? Whose questions are you taking seriously as a manufacturing leader? Are you only allowing men to ask questions, or are you allowing women to feel safe to ask questions too? Because I know everybody is, "What if it's a dumb question?" Everybody should be able to feel safe and say if they don't know something, so are you allowing that to happen? And are you making it a safe enough environment for people to admit if they know something or don’t know something?

I know for me personally, this has happened to me, but it's also happened to some other women that I've talked to. Within their first years of getting onboarded, they're seeing if there are opportunities for them to get mentored or if they're getting micromanaged. If they're making mistakes, are they getting treated like, "Okay, that's a learning moment for you," or are they getting treated as, "That's a character flaw within them"? Are leaders investing time and explaining to them the why of the mission of the business, or do they assume that their employees already know? And I think those answers to those questions are really going to determine if someone decides to stay in a company, or if they decide to go somewhere else and politely just exit. It's all about empowering your employees to be leaders themselves, and I think there are ways for that to happen.

So one big thing is access to information and resources. Are there opportunities for your employees to continue expanding on the skills that they already have? Can they climb up the ladder, and are you sharing that information with them? So if you're giving them opportunities to empower them to take responsibility and accountability and ownership for what they're responsible for, I think that's a huge signal to employees: "Yeah, this company really cares about me and my career growth, so I'm going to stay here and invest my time in them because they're investing in me." So I think those are just a few ways.

And honestly, too, I think respect is a huge thing. I've worked with companies, one in particular comes to mind, where I was part of the marketing department, and I had my daughter at home, I was a single mom, and they got to a point of micromanaging where they expected everybody in the marketing department to have these folders and hand them in at the end of each day. And it tracked all of the projects we worked on within that day and the time we spent on each project.

Sean Riley: Yikes.

Meaghan Ziemba: And the VP of marketing came in and he pulled my folder... And, like, I was on my way out the door because it was 5:00, so I was about to go home. He literally kept me two hours later and drew a diagram of what a blog post looked like. Mind you, I have a master's degree in professional and technical writing.

Sean Riley: You got some mansplaining.

Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah. And by the time he was done explaining to me what a blog post looked like and the parts of a blog post, he basically said, "Meaghan, you can go home now and take care of your daughter." And I was like, "Cool." And I'm not the only one who's had those types of experiences. You don't want to end up in that type of work culture. You definitely want to be made to feel like you're part of the whole purpose, the whole mission of the company, and not just another number doing their time just to collect a paycheck.

Sean Riley: Right, yeah. So that's like a major mindset that sort of has to change or needs to be tweaked a bit in manufacturing.

Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. I feel like there's definitely a mindset change, because manufacturing initially... It's been around for centuries, right? I think around World War II, we represented 42%. So we were always encouraged to do other types of careers and not manufacturing and engineering. So it's not really been a system built for us, so how can we change that to be more accepting of women coming in and pursuing some of these leadership positions, even? Because right now I think we're one in four in mid-management-level positions, and then only 13% in CEO. I might have those statistics reversed, but we're not represented well in leadership positions either. So it's hard for younger generations to believe that they can excel and get past that first rung of promotion if they don't see themselves in those leadership positions. So what can we do to make those more available and approachable for younger generations?

Sean Riley: Yeah. And it seems like common sense, but as you're saying it, you're right. I don't think that number's off that you're saying. I think it is 10% of CEOs or something like that who are women.

Meaghan Ziemba: One in four. Yeah, one in four. Deloitte is the one that I usually look to in terms of numbers, and The Manufacturing Institute is the other resource that I look into for both types of statistics.

Sean Riley: Yeah, both very good. This was wonderful. I could talk to you all day. This was very easy, and you put a lot out there in a short amount of time.

Meaghan Ziemba: Thank you.

Sean Riley: I never thought of... I have a teenage daughter, and I would never associate Minecraft as being something from a building standpoint that is a good thing. It was just a video game you shouldn't be doing, but as you're explaining it, you like it. It's like playing with blocks; it's learning how, like you said, spatial awareness and stuff like that. So yeah, I can have something to take away from this as well.

Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah.

Sean Riley: So, again, I just want to thank you, Meaghan, for coming on here and giving our audience a few tips on how we can make this more welcoming for women in manufacturing.

Meaghan Ziemba: Yeah. Thank you, Sean. I appreciate it. It was a lot of fun.